The best case is to have both an upper and barrel that have the feed ramps. If I can correct an issue before it's an issue that is preferred. Is one better than the other? AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - M4 feed ramp barrel in a non M4 ramp upper. Reliability is the main concern for me when I re-barrel this rifle. AR15 20 inch Upper Receiver Group (SS) w/ Handguard | BCM M16s and M16-A1s run at 750 rounds per minute in full auto. Required fields are marked *. This includes M4 feed ramps, barrel nut, front sight tower and sight post, and -28 threads for a muzzle device. M4 feed ramp barrel in a non M4 ramp upper - AR15.COM A4 Complete Upper Receiver. Sent back again. You can always buy a non-m4 extension and have the new barrel retimed and headspaced, but it will probably cost more than a new upper receiver. Then the manufacturer discontinued the barrel. Amazing what happens in a thread over a simple question. First, the M4 barrel and non-M4 upper isnt likely to cause issues, but due to the relief cut on an M4-spec upper, there will be a gap that works like an edge that most definitely can snag the bullet and stub the round. I prefer them. You want them to match. True, which is why they're not even needed in semi autos. Display as a link instead, By Should not be too hard. I've seen several places say you just need a 1/8" chainsaw sharpening bit and a Dremel to fix it. Then you can get a regular rifle barrel for the upper with no ramps. practical_man We're a little past that point as I already own both the barrel and receiver, both of which cant easily be replaced or swapped for a decent price. Adding feedramps - M4Carbine.net AR-15 feed ramp issues - Rifle - Technical - Brian Enos's Forums Barrel Length: 16" Barrel Material: 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Barrel Finish: Phosphate Barrel Profile: M4 Chamber: 5.56 NATO Twist Rate: 1 in 7" Extension: M4 Gas System: Carbine-Length Gas Block Type: Low Profile .750" Diameter Upper Receiver: Forged 7075 T6 Aluminum Receiver Style: M4 Flat top with feed ramps Receiver Finish: Hardcoat Anodized I didnt think anything about it having M4 feed ramps. Interesting reading. The Differences Between an M4 and an AR15 - Music Raiser Polishing the edges of the chamber mouth to remove the edges of that chamfer will. I think you will find that the tip of the bullet clears the M4 cuts in the upper receiver by a wide margin. What Are M4 Feed Ramps and What Is The Benefit Of It? - Adventure Footstep A couple of times I ended up with the OK set up from the picture above. I have a 723 build (w/ C7 upper) and a 727 build (A2 upper) that use 14.5" Colt M4 barrels. Is it kosher to add M4 feed ramps to a standard upper to match an m4 ramped barrel? I think my question would be why rifle receiver+M4 barrel is just "ok" rather than "good", unless the point is that in a carbine-gas gun M4 ramps are just considered an improvement over no ramps. A forum community dedicated to drag racing drivers and enthusiasts. Proper maintenance and lubrication. Your link has been automatically embedded. Go back to writing school. Get The Best Trigger Pull Gauges To Make Every Shot Count. Notice how the ramp starts on the barrel extension and not in the receiver. 6.5 Grendel Type 2 | 16" Black Nitride | 1:8 Twist Carbine Length Gas Questions on how to install your new BA barrel? Also, barrel life is relative. Thats true overall and good to keep in mind. Home Firearms Figuring Out Feed Ramps. Full M4 feed ramps start on the upper and continue onto the barrel extension. Feed Ramp Polishing - How To Do It Properly? - Homestead & Prepper You have a rifle barrel. 50 bucks one way or the other on the barrel ain't squat! Press J to jump to the feed. Seems counter intuitive to recommend an M4 cut upper, especially if the barrel Im looking at has the rifle feed ramp (not M4 cut). Given that most of us dont always have perfect access to truly genuine Mil-Spec, mil-standard parts (those actually used in issued fighting tools), were shopping based on a little part trust and a bigger part knowledge. Not saying a really good gunsmith cant do it, just that theres a bit of an involved process. However the DD 14.5 are ideally meant to mate up with M4 style upper receiver feedramps. BUT if you find someone to grind your feed ramps and they do a good job, post it up and let us know. I just need a little guidance on this and I'm having trouble getting good results from Google. This is why you can use a barrel with an extension with M4 feedramps with a receiver that does not have feedramps, but you cannot use a receiver with M4 feedramps with a barrel with an extension with rifle feedramps. Press J to jump to the feed. The mil actually only specs M4 feed ramps for use in its M4s. Rifles, Uppers, Lowers, Barrels, and more, [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Rifle vs m4 feed ramps, http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q125/PursuitSS/Postings%20photos/c0d26170b75c3e6f9ea65a7d0862247e.jpg. i have an extra brand new M4 barrel extension ramp to replace a rifle ramp. The M4 ramps, if I am not mistaken, were originally made to help reduce malfunctions on the M4 carbine. BrianEnos.com 3. Barrel is medium SPR profiled barrel, threaded with a 1/2-28 thread for the AE brakes and collar. 14.5" M4 SOCOM Barrel Assembly with Sight Tower - Brownells From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. You are using an out of date browser. So like ORD says it is entirely 100% possible and plenty of people do it, but I would rather not do any work to this perfect barrel. The ramps on the regular rifle-type extension are cut just to the edge of the extension. After two months of back and forth, cleaned up the feed ramps. Powered by Invision Community. No need to alter the upper. AR9 - Help diagnosing feeding issue. How long your barrel "lasts" depends on what your accuracy threshold is before you decide it is too bad to keep using. You wrote that much to make a point that should have taken about 100 words? PRI MK 12 Mod H 16" 223/5.56 Upper w/ 1-7 twist The angle is going to be key, alot of people attempt to mimic the angle of the barrel feed ramps, this is incorrect. To measure just where the round makes impact on the feed ramps, I did not use any sort of micrometer to measure. Edited April 27, 2014 by Mark Gale I've modified barrel/receivers even before M4 cuts came out and done some receivers when the barrels had cuts. Either way is good and both types work great with semi auto only guns. Rifle vs m4 feed ramps - AR15.COM I've been thinking about doing sort of an "Early Diemaco C8 carbine" clone build with a C7 style upper receiver. Absolutely nothing to do with casing diameter, or whatever other weird sht you guys imagine. Feed Ramps -300BlkTalk Feedramps, proper staking of castle nuts, forward assist (yep went there)S-happens seen it. aaargh.. that's the setup I hate to see. Thats receivers, bolts, and on down the list of the 100 or so parts that can make up an AR-15. No feed ramps. M4 Barrel Extension (M4 Feedramps) $22.95 (4 reviews) SKU: Barrel-Extension-M4 Stock Status: Quantity: Add to Wish List Description For your AR15, M16, M4. Metal cases ammunition such as Wolf through an M4 clone? *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Figuring Out Feed Ramps | Feed Ramp Tips | The Shooter's Log If you have a m4 ramped upper but not barrel you can cause problems as there's a lip of steel barrel extension in the way that can cause feeding problems. This 20" BCM barrel is machined from SS410 stainless steel. In case My barrel is rifle ramp it won't be so bad after all. I'd rather not spent the money to get it cut to the specific length I need, FSB installed, etc just to have it immediately not work and have to sort out then or start from square one with a new barrel. These Mil-Spec M4 feed ramps are part of the original CNC manufacturing process. The reason I decided to write about this topic at all was because there are some mil-spec features advertised on aftermarket parts that arent even really mil-spec. Gas block area is .750 diameter. this is the barrel designed and profiled for the Mark 12 Mod 0 uppers and rifles. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. Anything else you want to share about M4 clones would be appreciated, especially when it comes to a reliable rifle. An upper without feed ramps can be used with a barrel that has them as the majority of the ramp is on the barrel extension. By To conclude, the M4 feed ramps bring a lot of improvements to the AR-platform firearms. It's best to have M4 ramps on both the upper and barrel. - The Shooter's Log, 2012 SHOT Show Special Report: Del-Ton TRX Rifle and More! BUT, I DO NOT TRUST MY LIFE TO THAT WEAPON. Additionally, in this increasingly specialized world of AR-15 parts that we live in, there are proprietary feed ramp cuts used for some alternate cartridges, such as .458 SOCOM. By Yamil Sued August 6, 2021. I didn't forsee that we'd ever see the day when replacement parts would be so hard to get. Create Account; Log Out ; Log In ; Wishlist 0; Shopping Cart 0; Home; About A4 Complete Upper Receiver - 7075 Forged A4 Flat Top Upper Receiver - M4 Feed Ramps Includes: - Add to Cart. CUTTING M4 RAMPS - YouTube 3. Looking for a black stripped A1 upper with non m4 feed ramps (just realized the upper I have wont work with my barrel). Add 3% to the total cost for credit card purchases. Standard vs M4 Feed Ramps, what's the difference #1056 Upload or insert images from URL. So, what youre saying is that an M16 upper (not M4 cut) will work with either barrel, but an M4 cut upper will only work with an M4 cut barrel. The M4 cut extends down beyond the edge of the barrel extension (has a scalloped appearance), and a correspondingly deeper cut in an M4-spec upper receiver effectively extends the ramps downward (they're lowered). Supposedly you'll only notice issues with rapid/auto fire with a configuration like this. There is a picture of the various options, hopefully another poster can link them. In short, if you have a Dremmel you can do it yourself. You can run M4 cut barrels with rifle receivers, but not the other way around as it will create at catch that can hang up the bullets. If I have a rifle ramp upper and get the barrel later and coincidentally will have an m4 ramp. When you need to nail something you use a hammer not a wrench. Please allow 5~10 days for assembly and testing before ship date. In general, all you need to understand is that the M4 feed ramps include the barrel extension and upper receiver. Watch a video about our Modern Series AR barrel: The barrels also had to be modified. I replaced the M4 feed ramp barrel with a monolithic feed ramp barrel and no more problems. The only one I found is LaRue's upper, but it won't work with the hand guard I'm using (Geissele MKIII). FFL Fax: 866-721-8691. For this test, I used a Colt upper with M4 feed ramps and a SOCOM heavy 14.5 barrel, just like what is used in the military. Modern Series Barrels. Forged 7075-T6 aluminum is harder than a bulls balls. It's best to use rifle/rifle combo or M4/M4. Another reason is that any commercial receiver and parts makers want to tool up to make upper receivers and barrel extensions, especially when shorter guns are becoming more popular. By using the M4 feed ramps for your firearm, you could pick up an increased percentage of the rounds, and feeding reliability would be improved. By my estimates, the tip of the bullet first hits the barrel extension about 1/3 of the way up the respective feed ramp on the barrel extension. Would not feed to save its life! Damaged Ak front end Barrel in Trunnion with or without sight bases. Brevity matters. If you ever have an issue, then look at getting a correct barrel for the upper. DoubleStar M4 clone opinions | Survivalist Forum Feed ramps being m4 or. Higher pressure equte to parts (bcg, buffer, buffer spring, ROUNDS, etc) experiencing much higher wear/tear. What is an m4 feed ramp? If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Just put it in and shoot it. AR9 - Help diagnosing feeding issue - Calguns.net I would only add the feed ramps to the receiver if I had feeding issues, which you should not have. I wouldn't be concerned at all with any wear after modifying an upper receiver. I would just make sure to order rifle upper with rifle barrel extension or M4 upper with M4 barrel extension. They provide a lower, wider, and smoother entry for any round of ammo, whether its necessary or not. That puts the cartridge in a position where the extended feed ramp improves the breech-loading design. Whether they materialize or not depends on the direction of the mismatch. So the engineers lowered the feed rampa into the receiver. We have four combinations here: Barrel customizations are also available. M16's fed pretty well before the M4 feed ramps were introduced. JavaScript is disabled. Buy AR 15 16" .350 Legend Nitride M4 Profile Barrel 1:16: GunBroker is the largest seller of AR15 Parts Gun Parts All: 974000728 . Both. which is basicallly an m16a1 cut down. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Owning Best Ruger SR9c Accessories Can Change Your Life. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Powered by Invision Community, M4-style barrel extension with Rifle-type upper. Rear side of a CZ-75B pistol barrel showing the (here dirty) feed ramp. Its easier to add feed ramps to the receiver not so easy to add them to the barrel extension. Del-Ton, Inc. AR-15 16" M4 Custom Upper A feed ramp is a basic feature of many breech loading cartridge firearm designs. 1 is a standard and the other for use with m4 feed ramp barrels. Looking to spend $180-250 (depending on condition, forge mark and if a rear sight is included or not.) Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. The barrel blanks available are made from 416 Stainless Steel. Being a Newbie AR owner ((Ive been an avid gun owner for nearly 50 years), I appreciate the information and visual aids that Im sure will be a big help in enjoying and using this gun platform. Modify AR15 A2 barrel extension for M4 feed ramp? A shorter gas tube means reduced gas pressure, and we all know what happens when there isn't enough pressure to cycle the bolt carrier group properly. Little polish. Snipers Hide is a community of Snipers of all kinds, focusing on long range shooting, accuracy, and ballistics. May 17, 2008 in The Armorer. Shorter length equates to much higher pressure in the upper receiver. I guess it depends on what your relationship to the necessary shop activities is. Olympic Arms Upper receiver with rear sight assembly and forward assist and dust cover has M4 feed ramps $260 View attachment 1016575 View attachment 1016576 CARBON-15 Stripped Lower Receiver As a result, the factory machined M4 feed ramps on the receiver are hard coat anodized which adds significant strength to the aluminum. I've seen that pic, it is a good reference. Site towers are not "F" marked SPECS: Length- 14.5". But, as with anything else, this work can go too far. A closer look at uppers and barrel extensions. Is it worth the extra 50 bucks?" No Feed Ramps on upper? - General Discussion - 308AR.com Community It is a tightly machined and polished piece of metal which guides a cartridge from the top of the magazine into the firing chamber of the barrel. The upper is designed to have two levels of top rails for mounting of night vision in front of scopes. The upper I want to rebarrel is modified for Service Rifle competition so it's not quite as cheap as buying another $89 upper from Aero. So, lets glide down these lines below to erase your misconceptions about them. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. BEFORE YOU GO MODIFYING IT, check your headspace.I have a Gibbz upper in my junk drawer because the upper -- for some reason -- wouldn't allow a perfectly good bolt (as checked by Criterion) to headspace correctly on a Criterion barrel, with the bolt installed in the carrier. You absolutely do not want it the other way around however. April 23, 2014 in Rifle - Technical. If it was some flat top + 16" FSB barrel id just swap upper/barrel, but this is a little more challenging to do that with. Ballistic Performance of Federal Punch .22 LR Ammunition with the Heritage Barkeep #1063. However, its rare now to find an upper receiver or a ready-to-go barrel that doesnt have the M4 cuts. if you are OK with 3MOA, you might go 20,000 rounds! AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. There's no downside to having M4 feedramps on your carbine, but they are not as necessary without full auto and when using followers that will not tilt (or in a 20 AR15). Married pretty well with my Seekins machined lower. Featuring hand lapped 1/8 twist rate button rifling and M4 feed ramps barrel extensions, the 410 stainless barrel gives the shooter the best balance of weight and accuracy. There are now thousands of upper receivers and ready-to-use barrels that have the cuts of M4 feed ramps. Theres a bit more to it than just polishing. Again, youll find plenty of videos on spooling up hand grinders to remedy feed ramp and ejection port issues with these larger cartridges, but I strongly suggest going factory-done aftermarket. I'd rather just pay the gunsmith to make it work than hunt down another barrel/upper if possible. FWIW one of my rifles has M4 feed ramps on the barrel and no M4 feed ramps on the upper and it has functioned just fine. Thank you for answering the question do well. That's an important thing since without the feed ramps, issues can arise when receivers and barrel extensions are mismatched. It's going to a gunsmith to be shortened and rethreaded anyways, can they just grind/polish the feed ramps to match or is it more involved than that? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Add M4 cuts to Barrel Ext $15.00 We can modify your rifle extension to match the M4 cuts in an upper receiver. It's not worth changing the barrel extension on an already finished barrel, getting the new barrel extension to line up correctly with the gas port will probably cost more in gunsmithing/machining fees than buying a new barrel. The leading cause that leads to the development of the M4 feed ramp is the gas pressure from the carbine gas system that is increasing along with a high cyclic rate. what does it do?? They are better! Konza Defender M-LOK 5.56 16" Rifle 1x7 FEATURES: 16" 4150 Nitride 1x7 5.56 Barrel T-Marked Upper with M4 Feed Ramps Steel Micro Gas Block, and Carbine Length Gas Tube 15" 7075 T6 Aluminum Free Float M-LOK Hand Guard A2 Muzzle Break BCG is an M16 Style Nitride QPQ Finish Charging Handle Mil-Spec 6 Position Mil-Spec Diameter Stock AAC and anybody else that has any reasonable expectation of quality and reliability use an M4 feed ramp. It's near impossible to replace the carry handle upper I have these days, and finding a colt chrome lined 20" light weight barrel isn't a walk in the park either. Reach in through the ejection port and slide the on deck cartridge about 1/4 inch forward and observe the tip of the bullet in relationship to the barrel extension. The ramps are in the barrel extension. When I function tested it the first time with live half-jacketed rounds I had the worst FTF jam I have ever experienced. so it is better to have an upper reciever that's designed for non-m4 feed ramps since you can put in standard barrels right? This gave it a longer point for the magazine to allow the rounds to come out of the magazine and feed into the chamber. -The Barrel MUST be removed from the Upper Receiver in order to use this Kit.-Never cut or polish the aluminum M4 Feed Ramps in your upper receiver! One new winner* is announced every week! They offer a lower, more extensive, and smoother entry for any round of ammo, whether its necessary or not. Use this M4 Barrel extention with M4 feedramps. However, I have seen more than a few basement gunsmith hackjobs using a dremel, some Jack Daniels/liquid courage, and an unsteady hand that have made a total, unrepairable mess of the job. Editors Note: This article was originally published in January of 2019. You can put a M4 barrel and non-M4 receiver together, but you can't mismatch them the other way. Description. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. Not all mil-spec features advertised on the product information are the real mil-specs. Can someone recommend or point me in the right direction of a good quality upper receiver for an SPR build that does not have M4 feed ramp cuts in it? The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! If you don't clean it but demand 3/4MOA you might get 1,500. One new winner* is announced every week! 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