What does that have to do with Christianity? So Plato, Pindar, Sophocles, all the way into Cicero, Marcus Aurelius, it's an important thing. BRIAN MURARESKU: I'm bringing more illumination. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More from The Tim Ferriss Show on Podchaser, aired Wednesday, 28th December 2022. It's really quite simple, Charlie. Nazanin Boniadi That's how we get to Catalonia. Although she's open to testing, there was nothing there. CHARLES STANG: OK, that is the big question. And then at some point they go inland. Because very briefly, I think Brian and others have made a very strong case that these things-- this was a biotechnology that was available in the ancient world. And so I cite a Pew poll, for example, that says something like 69% of American Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, which is the defining dogma of the church, the idea that the bread and wine literally becomes the flesh and blood. And that's the mysteries of Dionysus. If you are drawn to psychedelics, in my mind, it means you're probably drawn to contemplative mysticism. When you start testing, you find things. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. And that's what I get into in detail in the book. His aim when he set out on this journey 12 years ago was to assess the validity of a rather old, but largely discredited hypothesis, namely, that some of the religions of the ancient Mediterranean, perhaps including Christianity, used a psychedelic sacrament to induce mystical experiences at the border of life and death, and that these psychedelic rituals were just the tip of the iceberg, signs of an even more ancient and pervasive religious practice going back many thousands of years. This 'pagan continuity hypothesis' with a psychedelic twist is now backed up by biochemistry and agrochemistry and tons of historical research, exposing our forgotten history. Now, I've never done them myself, but I have talked to many, many people who've had experience with psychedelics. But maybe you could just say something about this community in Catalonia. They followed Platonic (and other Greeks) philosophy. So let's start, then, the first act. And so how far should this investigation go? And even in the New Testament, you'll see wine spiked with myrrh, for example, that's served to Jesus at his crucifixion. Let me just pull up my notes here. OK. Now let's pan back because, we have-- I want to wrap up my interrogation of you, which I've been pressing you, but I feel as if perhaps people joining me think I'm hostile to this hypothesis. And I started reading the studies from Pat McGovern at the University of Pennsylvania. A rebirth into what? So welcome to the fourth event in our yearlong series on psychedelics and the future of religion, co-sponsored by the Esalen Institute, the Riverstyx Foundation, and the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. and he said, Brian, don't you dare. He was wronged by individuals, allegedly. Rather, Christian beliefs were gradually incorporated into the pagan customs that already existed there. And all we know-- I mean, we can't decipher sequence by sequence what was happening. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. And I think there are so many sites and excavations and so many chalices that remain to be tested. It's not the case in the second century. She found the remains of dog sacrifice, which is super interesting. And I'm happy to see we have over 800 people present for this conversation. CHARLES STANG: You know, Valentinus was almost elected bishop of Rome. So Dionysus is not the god of alcohol. And keep in mind that we'll drop down into any one of these points more deeply. I will ask Brian to describe how he came to write this remarkable book, and the years of sleuthing and studying that went into it. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. "@BrianMuraresku with @DocMarkPlotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More" Please enjoy! Now, I mentioned that Brian and I had become friends. And I think that's an important distinction to make. Perhaps more generally, you could just talk about other traditions around the Mediterranean, North African, or, let's even say Judaism. And you find terracotta heads that could or could not be representative of Demeter and Persephone, the two goddesses to whom the mysteries of Eleusis were dedicated. To this day I remain a psychedelic virgin quite proudly, and I spent the past 12 years, ever since that moment in 2007, researching what Houston Smith, perhaps one of the most influential religious historians of the 20th century, would call the best kept secret in history. And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. 48:01 Brian's psychedelic experiences . And Dennis, amongst others, calls that a signature Dionysian miracle. This time, tonight I'll say that it's just not my time yet. Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion 3 days ago Plants of the Gods: S4E1. So I really follow the scholarship of Enriqueta Pons, who is the archaeologist on site there, at this Greek sanctuary that we're talking about in Catalonia, Mas Castellar des Pontos. So perhaps there's even more evidence. You know, it's an atheist using theological language to describe what happened to her. We know from the literature hundreds of years beforehand that in Elis, for example, in the Western Peloponnese, on the same Epiphany-type timeline, January 5, January 6, the priests would walk into the temple of Dionysus, leave three basins of water, the next morning they're miraculously transformed into wine. 101. What was the real religion of the ancient Greeks? What's different about the Dionysian mysteries, and what evidence, direct or indirect, do we have about the wine of Dionysus being psychedelic? I know that's another loaded phrase. I see something that's happening to people. So how does Dionysian revelries get into this picture? CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. I also sense another narrative in your book, and one you've flagged for us, maybe about 10 minutes ago, when you said that the book is a proof of concept. I see a huge need and a demand for young religious clergy to begin taking a look at this stuff. They found a tiny chalice this big, dated to the second century BC. And so in some of these psychedelic trials, under the right conditions, I do see genuine religious experiences. And what do you believe happens to you when you do that? Eusebius, third into the fourth century, is also talking about them-- it's a great Greek word, [SPEAKING GREEK]. let's take up your invitation and move from Dionysus to early Christianity. But I mentioned that we've become friends because it is the prerogative of friends to ask hard questions. And he was actually going out and testing some of these ancient chalices. So it's hard for me to write this and talk about this without acknowledging the Jesuits who put me here. There have been really dramatic studies from Hopkins and NYU about the ability of psilocybin at the end of life to curb things like depression, anxiety, and end of life distress. Find ratings and reviews for the newest movie and TV shows. Then I'll ask a series of questions that follow the course of his book, focusing on the different ancient religious traditions, the evidence for their psychedelic sacraments, and most importantly, whether and how the assembled evidence yields a coherent picture of the past. I think the wine certainly does. And I look forward to talking about this event with you after the fact eventually over a beer. And why, if you're right that the church has succeeded in suppressing a psychedelic sacrament and has been peddling instead, what you call a placebo, and that it has exercised a monstrous campaign of persecution against plant medicine and the women who have kept its knowledge alive, why are you still attached to this tradition? Show Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and Conservation podcast, Ep Plants of the Gods: S4E2. Here's another one. Maybe I'm afraid I'll take the psychedelic and I won't have what is reported in the literature from Hopkins and NYU. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. Now, here's-- let's tack away from hard, scientific, archaeobotanical evidence for a moment. If beer was there that long ago, what kind of beer was it? And much of the evidence that you've collected is kind of the northern half of the Mediterranean world. And if there's historical precedent for it, all the more so. I know that that's a loaded phrase. Just from reading Dioscorides and reading all the different texts, the past 12 years have absolutely transformed the way I think about wine. So if you don't think that you are literally consuming divine blood, what is the point of religion? But curiously, it's evidence for a eye ointment which is supposed to induce visions and was used as part of a liturgy in the cult of Mithras. To some degree, I think you're looking back to southern Italy from the perspective of the supremacy of Rome, which is not the case in the first century. When Irenaeus is talking about [SPEAKING GREEK], love potions, again, we have no idea what the hell he's talking about. In the first half, we'll cover topics ranging from the Eleusinian Mysteries, early Christianity, and the pagan continuity hypothesis to the work of philosopher and psychologist William James. Was there any similarity from that potion to what was drunk at Eleusis? And the big question for me was what was that something else? I mean, something of symbolic significance, something monumental. CHARLES STANG: So it may be worth mentioning, for those who are attending who haven't read the book, that you asked, who I can't remember her name, the woman who is in charge of the Eleusis site, whether some of the ritual vessels could be tested, only to discover-- tested for the remains of whatever they held, only to learn that those vessels had been cleaned and that no more vessels were going to be unearthed. The continuity between pagan and Christian cult nearby the archaeological area of Naquane in Capo di Ponte. Not because it was brand new data. So, you know, I specifically wanted to avoid heavily relying on the 52 books of the [INAUDIBLE] corpus or heavily relying too much on the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and the evidence that's come from Egypt. Wise not least because it is summer there, as he reminds me every time we have a Zoom meeting, which has been quite often in these past several months. OK, Brian, I invite you to join us now. And so I can see psychedelics being some kind of extra sacramental ministry that potentially could ease people at the end of life. So first of all, please tell us how it is you came to pursue this research to write this book, and highlight briefly what you think are its principal conclusions and their significance for our present and future. Oh, I hope I haven't offended you, Brian. CHARLES STANG: Brian, I wonder if you could end by reflecting on the meaning of dying before you die. That to live on forever and ever, to live an everlasting life is not immortality. Wonderful, well, thank you. And yet I talked to an atheist who has one experience with psilocybin and is immediately bathed in God's love. We know that at the time of Jesus, before, during, and after, there were recipes floating around. So I don't write this to antagonize them or the church, the people who, again, ushered me into this discipline and into these questions. It draws attention to this material. Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . So I have my concerns about what's about to happen in Oregon and the regulation of psilocybin for therapeutic purposes. The divine personage in whom this cult centered was the Magna Mater Deum who was conceived as the source of all life as well as the personification of all the powers of nature.\[Footnote:] Willoughby, Pagan Regeneration, p. 114.\ 7 She was the "Great Mother" not only "of all the gods," but of all men" as well. So I think this was a minority of early Christians. Now that doesn't mean, as Brian was saying, that then suggests that that's the norm Eucharist. And I think that that's the real question here. It is not psychedelics. If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. And the big question is, what is this thing doing there in the middle of nowhere? He calls it a drug against grief in Greek, [SPEAKING GREEK]. But if the original Eucharist were psychedelic, or even if there were significant numbers of early Christians using psychedelics like sacrament, I would expect the representatives of orthodox, institutional Christianity to rail against it. It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. Well, wonderful. That's, just absurd. The kind of mysticism I've always been attracted to, like the rule of Saint Benedict and the Trappist monks and the Cistercian monks. Not because they just found that altar. It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. But with what were they mixed, and to what effect? BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. In my previous posts on the continuity hypothesis . And so the big hunt for me was trying to find some of those psychedelic bits. But this clearly involved some kind of technical know-how and the ability to concoct these things that, in order to keep them safe and efficacious, would not have been very widespread, I don't think. And I think what the pharmaceutical industry can do is help to distribute this medicine. That's because Brian and I have become friends these past several months, and I'll have more to say about that in a moment. CHARLES STANG: Well, Mr, Muraresku, you are hedging your bets here in a way that you do not necessarily hedge your bets in the book. I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? The most colorful theory of psychedelics in religion portrays the original Santa Claus as a shaman. That was the question for me. So why the silence from the heresiologists on a psychedelic sacrament? And even Burkert, I think, calls it the most famous of the mystery rituals. BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. But we do know that something was happening. So you were unable to test the vessels on site in Eleusis, which is what led you to, if I have this argument right, to Greek colonies around the Mediterranean.

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