Below are the commissioning ADSOs by source of commission: ROTC Non-Scholars have a 3-year commissioning ADSO. Its creepy; Im scared Ill go to get out and theyll be like nah man you have 3 more years. How can I show that my BrADSO wasnt taken? Note: The waiver authority for this requirement is the Commanding General, U.S. Army Aviation Center, Fort Rucker, AL 36362-5000. . Like many personnel issues though, the age limit is probably ripe for a re-look given that people now live healthier, more active, and longer lives. In the report provided to Congress, however, increasing the service obligation was not mentioned as a possible solution to pilot retention shortfalls. If ATPs are granted, I'll be the first one to sign up as a warrant officer. Although its easy to feel stuck on Active Duty, there are also options for getting out early. c. Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates accepti ng an appoint in the Regular Army or a Reserve Appointment with a concurrent call to active duty incur a 3-year ADSO (see AR 350 . Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. I'm very healthy and fit, I would like to fly helicopters. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school in FY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. Yes, most of us eventually plan to move on to the airlines. Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may After all, it is the warrant officer exodus to the airlines that has driven the Armys pilot retention focus. You'll be a WO for three-ish years. When I got selected it was a 60/40 split between street to seat and prior. This eventually allows you to retire a full four years earlier than any other military aviator. We are always either training or deploying. The earlier you can Palace Chase, the less difference there is between a regular Active Duty pilot and someone following Stans plan. Im scheduled to graduate, 1st or 2nd week of September. I would also say if the Army wants to recruit more street to seat, I would require those people to attend Basic Training at FT Benning and intensify the military training for non-prior service WOCs. Therefore, this option is virtually free for Aviation officers. Powered by Invision Community, https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. Stan is likely to do plenty of TDYs as an engineer and isnt impervious to the threat of deployment. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. What is the real answer? Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the. NO WOFT POSTS. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. If I am a scholarship Cadet, I understand that upon completion of my initial 4 year ROTC ADSO, I . That's not what I am talking about. This is the amount of time that an officer must serve on active duty. Like it or not, you need to accrue that experience one way or another. On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. . Anyway, I just clocked 20 years, 5 1/2 years of that has been spent in the Middle East and for what? Just sign away your life until you're 34!". Fly them that way through the instrument phase, and then conduct a rotary wing transition. Soldiers pilot a CH-47 Chinook helicopter during a training flight over the city of Erbil in the Kurdistan Region of Iraq, May 23, 2020. ADDED QUESTION: What, in your opinion, is the average view of Army Aviation within the perspectives of your peers? Why should you consider doing Company . Having looked at these options, lets go back to our original thought: If you missed your shot at the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path are you screwed? While there are some top performers that will elect to pursue the branch because they plan on a career from the beginning, there are far more that may be hesitant or undecided about committing to a decade of their professional lives to a niche field when they're only 22 or 23 if they aren't already passionate about everything aviation. Yes, life there is fantastic, and its important to get there as quickly as you can because Seniority is Everything. There are a lot more BCTs, SF groups, SFABs and NG/USAR units than there are CABs. The. The pay raise was the first in two decades to help balance pilot numbers at all ranks and stay competitive with the civilian market. Nope. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Next, hed go to his first assignment. This is anecdotal, of course, but nowadays there is no appreciable down time. Well see that the Active Duty option is still a good deal, that the overall difference isnt so great, and well see why youre better off pursuing either than trying to fulfill a non-pilot commissioning commitment before trying to pursue the Ultimate career path. What if you transfer from being an officer with 8 years of service (including enlisted time) to being warrant aviation? As a Guard or, There are also a lot of great flying opportunities that you can only do on Active Duty. But at what cost? In my first year and a half after flight school I flew over 500 hours. With this data, the Army can tailor solutions to address the issues that cause pilots to leave. If you havent already read, Welcome back to Part 2 of our series about career progression for Air Force pilots, from the pilot perspective. Often times these decisions being made do more harm than good, and cause a tremendous amount of work (just look at our administrative packet processes). He was thinking about turning down an Active Duty UPT slot and fulfilling the alternative 5-year USAFA non-pilot ADSC as an engineer or something, then pursuing a UPT slot with a Guard or Reserve unit. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. Our young NCOs want to become warrant officers and get out and fly. Sometimes that's necessary, but there's got to be some balance. While the goal of the CSA's program was a well intentioned effort to make up for a dearth of aviation experience at senior ranks, it wasn't well received and Congress bit back. It will harm recruiting and we will continue to bleed talent into the civilian aviation market. If the Army rescinds this ADSO and reverts to the original six-year obligation, it will have six years to develop solutions to increase retention. The U-2 and B-2 are both single-location aircraft, and they go through so much trouble getting their pilots that youd have to try to leave. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! The impact on warrant officers may be as severe as the impact on would-be aviation lieutenants. The Army has had pilot shortages off and on ever since I can remember. In order to figure out the pros and cons of these different options, we first need to compare the timelines side by side. There are some other prerequisites they have to meet. The report focused on the unmet demand for pilots in the commercial aviation sector that has attracted military pilots. I am a former Aviation Officer and when I got out after my ADSO was complete I was surprised that no one questioned why or tried to get me to stay. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? Although busy, it left plenty of downtime for people to have actual lives. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? What if Stans 5-year ADSC runs out as the next SARS/Swine Flu/COVID-type pandemic puts hiring on hold? This means a steady paycheck and decent home life, except that as the newest pilot in the unit Stan is at the top of the list to deploy if the squadron gets sent downrange. Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. This puts you right at your commissioning ADSO plus the three-year CSP ADSO. . I want to do it for as long as I can. change without notice to me. Sounds great! What I would like to add is almost the opposite of some of these comments. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in '47.) I wish thiswasa little more clear. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. Your previous content has been restored. Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy recently signed a memorandum that increased the ADSOor active duty service obligationfor Army pilots. Not saying I would want the out but, contractually wouldnt there be something to be said for Breach of contract here? The increased ADSO only harms this effort further. Yes, they will retain aviators when the quality of life increases for aviation, not just grinding us into the ground until a new command comes along every 12-18 months and does it all over again. How to Join and Requirements Scholarship Opportunities Cadet Life , Network, As the COVID-19 crisis continues to drag on, I cant help asking my crystal ball how things are going to shake out. No products in the cart. The Department of Defense released a report in July 2019 that laid out the challenges the military faces with pilot retention and included plans of action from each branch. We want as many applications as we can, so if anybody has any questions, be sure to contact that warrant officer recruiting team, Kearns said. If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. However, increasing the service obligation of new pilots is the wrong course of action. Start date has no impact on this. Cadets, who have not experienced the Army for even one day as an officer, are now asked to commit up to eleven years for the opportunity to fly for six yearsif they are luckywhile spending the rest of that time on staff, in professional military education, or in broadening assignments. As a Guard or Reserve pilot, you may need to find a full-time flying job in addition to your military flying (full-time Guard/Reserve pilot jobs are available, but you should join with the expectation of needing civilian employment in addition to your military flying). Army and Air Force use this pay. There is no reset. The army has never been good at personnel management. They require more time for people to gain experience. Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. Also if you have any time in the army at all, youll probably stay until 20 at that point. I agreed and accepted my appointment based on certain terms and the terms are getting altered without my consideration. If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. It's a great time to apply to become a pilot, and [Soldiers] can get in with a high school degree. Given the pandemic's direct and indirect effects on the aviation industry, is that even going to a concern going forward. They run concurrently, butthe latter takes precedence, so your 6 (or 10) year ADSO begins the date you graduate Flight School. For the next decade of your life, you will deploy a lot and have little or no control over your assignment locations. It further acts as a disincentive to those who would like to do the mission, but are unwilling to sacrifice a decade of their time in the event they don't like the lifestyle. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. Im a senior NCO with two decades of experience and proven loyalty to the nation and her army. It was not a wild decision to take a small hit to accession to make sure you have mid careerists. Thank you for your time and have a great rest of your day! Were looking at troops selected for flight training in the fiscal year 2021 and beyond.. The service should find a better way of addressing its shortage of pilots. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the USAF Academy, ROTC, or OTS, I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive. army aviation 10 year adso. I honestly don't believe that the way out of this is getting more people to fly that have less time available left in their military careers. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. Age should be liftedI'm in my mid fifties and still fly helicopters (civilian market) for a living. New ADSO order goes into effect 03JUN saying: "Hey, buddy, you wanna fly? Army Aviation Leaders should. While I really want to be an aviator, the thought of being TOTALLY LOCKED IN until I'm 34 is terrifying. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. Well, the short answer is, we dont know. Then it gets worse: Over the past 19 years, an Active Duty pilot has also been likely to spend half or more of those operational assignments deployed. Instead of giving bonuses of several hundred thousand dollars to keep pilots like our Air Force brethren get, the Army decides the best course of action is to just make it mandatory 10 years like them but not receive the pay. No additional time added with a BRADSO. However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. Up to $15K per year payable to officers drawing Optometrist Regular Special Pay who have completed initial ADSO for education and training, and who execute a 12-month active duty service agreement. In the same discussion about retention data, Brig. You can post now and register later. I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. Your email address will not be published. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! I spend almost 20 years missing opportunities due to family, deployments, school, and fear to change. I don't know how common my situation is, but I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who barely flew, while there are others flying until they drop. Many aviators got tripped up by it in the last few years in the push to get to the airlines. The DoD report to Congress included a description of Air Force efforts to assess the problem: The Air Force gathered data on what drives separations from an October 2015 Fighter Pilot Retention Air Force Smart Operations for the 21st century event, the 2015 Air Force Exit and Retention surveys, the August 2017 Dedicated Aircrew Retention Teaming Summit, and a series of three aircrew retention crowdsourcing surveys sent to 9,000 aircrew members that culminated in March 2018. The BRADSO and PADSO portions of CSP remain in effect. Reading this in Jan 21, after 10 months of pandemic lockdown. Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. It doesn't matter that the WOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. I like the idea of the Ultimate career path because it still allows you to earn a 20-year military retirement.. There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. Required fields are marked *. I'm good at doing Army things and I enjoy them too, but I don't know if I can commit so much of my life before I've even had my first real taste of being an officer. You incura 6-year ADSO for completing WOBC and also for completing Initial flight training. A large number of aviation personnel have a lot of passion and dedication to the mission, but that can only last so long when your life consists ONLY of the mission. Posted in these groups: Pilot Officers Warrant Officers On the reset year, units focused on team building, socializing, individual skills, and professional development. It's almost as though he completely and totally ignored the concept of morale and esprit de corps. I see three and four star Generals with less, HOW?! My formation barely ever conducts social events. I crushed the SIFT, passed my flight physical, have a great OML standing, etc., so I should have a good chance of getting my top pick. Actually, the option to revert to Warrant Officer does exist. One Academy cadet I spoke with (lets call him Stan) has always wanted to be a military pilot. I want to do it for as long as I can. If you accept an Army scholarship or fellowship, you will owe 3 times the amount or schooling in days. The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. Well look at three cases: Although each of these career paths has potential for almost infinite variation, this diagram represents likely versions of each: Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. In recent discussions with some USAFA cadets, Ive encountered several who actually turned down pilot slots because of that 10-year ADSC. Theres a two word solution to this, age waiver. What a joke. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? Moving to a random Air Force Base for less than 1 year while Awaiting Pilot Training (APT), Moving to a base for 6-10 months for initial aircraft qualification. Although I like to poke my Active Duty friends in the chest by asking, What do you love about military aviation that you cant also get in the Guard or Reserves? Ill admit that there are some benefits to Active Duty military service. Probably a 11-11.5 year commitment. If I am branched Aviation, this ADSO will begin upon completion of my flight school ADSO. I still don't understand how this ADSO extension is going to fix any of those issues, though it may act as a "gotcha" to get people "over the hill" in their Army career where they wouldn't feel like a transition at 10-12 years of service would be a good decision. Think about approving some ETPs. ADSO stands for Active Duty Service Obligation. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. , I knew to ask lots of questions and take the time to dig down to the primary factors motivating this line of thinking. It is the cheapest method for increasing retention rates, delivers a long-term investment in human capital, and provides a more predictable model for pilot production requirements. Army Pilots put up with less Army BS and get paid more. Extra 4 years would NOT make a difference. No one knows somehow, my S1 doesnt know either. Clear editor. Expand The 10 year ADSO will actually prevent all but the youngest street-to-seaters from making the jump, I graduated flight school right after turning 24 and the AF won't take you after 33 without a waiver. This global pandemic has made unprecedented impacts on the worlds economies and our way of life, Koziol said. The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. You can review the rules in AR 600-3 if memory serves. Its a lot to ask. If anything it hurts recruiting new pilots. It never ends. The UH-72 costs twice as much to operate as a TH-67. If you, the seasoned army aviator, were still a senior in college and told that to become an aviator you had to sign for a 10-year + flight school ADSO, would you do it? Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. To create a mission-ready helicopter pilot, the Army invests between six hundred thousand and one million dollars during approximately one year of flight training. Whether you elect the Branch of Choice or Graduate School Program, there are slight differences to your commitment for those who branch Aviation. In the end, it's the Army getting a good return on the investments.. Time will tell. Thats at least 2 moves and several TDYs in the space of about 2 years. I was enlisted for 6 before I moved over. b. You make an excellent point..I'm a twice retired CW4 (did a voluntary retiree recall three years after my first twenty). Why or why not? I just signed my WOFT contract at MEPS on Thursday with the idea of a 6 year ADSO. In an all-volunteer force, you won't be ready if most of your personnel in a critical branch want to get out. Lasting solutions must come in the form of quality of life and quality of service improvements. Aviation: dude it's a 10 year ADSO, so I hope you like aviation, cuz you ain't going anywhere else.

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